Mark Herz: Every month, we check in with the state’s top public health official, the commissioner of the Department of Public Health, Robbie Goldstein. Dr. Goldstein testified on Beacon Hill this week saying Massachusetts officials would have to beef up public health policies and funding to make up for federal cuts. Also, we’re still watching measles and bird flu. Commissioner Goldstein joins us now to talk about those issues and more. Good morning.

Robbie Goldstein: Good morning.

Herz: We’ve been talking about funding cuts coming from the White House and how they could impact public health here in Massachusetts. You said your department is setting up its own vaccine infrastructure to make up for federal changes. Can you explain that?

Goldstein: Maybe if you’ll allow me, I’ll first start by saying, we’re really lucky to be here in Massachusetts because we’ve had years, decades, almost century of state investment in public health. That’s allowed for us to have a really robust vaccine infrastructure all across the state. I think the best example of that is that we have universal vaccine access for kids here in Massachusetts. Any kid can get a vaccine, they can go into their pediatrician’s office and we make sure that the vaccine’s on the shelves. The pediatrician can administer it, they can give the shot, and we can monitor it through our vaccine system at the state. We’re trying to do the same for adults because we know how important vaccination is. We know that if vaccines are accessible, if they’re easy for people to get, people are more likely to get them, and it’s the best way we can protect against so many diseases.

Mark Herz: So we’ve got our vaccine act together here in Massachusetts, and yet we’ve seen 20 more cases of measles out West over the last five days alone. Costs of containing that outbreak are rising and Secretary of Health and Human Services, RFK Jr. Has reported to have told grieving families of two girls that died, quote, "'You don’t know what’s in the vaccine anymore.’" Wanted to get your thoughts on that.

Goldstein: You know, I think what we’re seeing out west and really, frankly, across the entire country is tragic. We are now over 700 cases of measles in the United States in 2025 alone. That is a remarkable number for us all to take in. That’s, in particular, so remarkable because measles is a vaccine preventable illness. We know that the vaccine is safe and it’s effective. When we hear words like what you just said from RFK Jr., from the Secretary Health and Human Services. It undermines decades of science. It undermined the entire infrastructure of public health and that is not what we need in the country right now. We need to be resolute. Vaccines are safe, vaccines are effective, vaccines are the best way for parents to protect their children from measles.

Herz: Staying with Secretary Kennedy, he also said last week that he plans to tell the CDC to stop recommending fluoridation to communities nationwide. What’s your stance on this? Would you take that recommendation if it came down from the CDC? And what do you want people here in Massachusetts to know about this latest development?

Goldstein: I’m going to start by saying my bias. My dad’s a dentist, and so much of what I know about fluoride and fluoride in the water comes from my dad and I really have to bring in that perspective. But I think the reality is that fluorination of water works. We know that communities that have fluoride in the water end up with lower percentage of individuals with tooth decay, with dental problems, less time off of school and work to go to the dentist. This is actually equity in action. This is a way for us to make sure that public health interventions reach everyone in our state, especially the most vulnerable, by putting fluoride into the water. It’s also incredibly safe. The reports that Secretary Kennedy is leaning on, those reports really focus on artificially high levels of fluoride, levels that we don’t see in our water, levels that CDC doesn’t currently recommend, and levels that the Massachusetts Department of Public Health doesn’t recommend. What we recommend are low levels of fluoride in the water, that we know have the effect that we’re hoping them to have. They help young children in particular build strong teeth.

Herz: Okay and let’s switch over to what’s becoming a little bit of a perennial topic for you and me. Can you give us the latest updates and your recommendations on avian flu or bird flu, as most of us lay people call it?

Goldstein: So as we’ve been talking about over the past couple of months, we are seeing incredibly high levels of avian influenza or bird flu across the country and really across the world. But as we expected, as the weather warms, as we have higher and higher temperatures, we actually expected to see avian influenza levels drop. And that’s just the way that has always happened over the last many years. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be vigilant. It doesn’t that we shouldn’t keep looking and investing in our surveillance. And we’re doing so at the Department of Public Health. I do think it’s time for us all to recognize as the weather warms, as people are outside more, as you’re taking hikes and you’re walking around, if you see dead animals, please don’t go approach them. Call either the Department of Public health or Mass Wildlife, call your local board of health to make sure that we can take care of those animals because we don’t want anyone getting exposed at this time.

Herz: Which interesting to me is, and I didn’t read into this enough, but I saw there was a development in terms of treatment and prevention and there was something that could be sprayed in cows’ noses to try and cut it off from that end of the spectrum. I was wondering if you knew anything about this.

Goldstein: So our veterinary colleagues are doing a lot of great work around avian influenza in cattle and in particular in birds, right, to make sure that we can protect the poultry stock across the country. That includes things like vaccination and other interventions to help decrease transmission. And I think we’ve got to respect our veterary colleagues, let them do this work, try to understand how they can keep this virus contained within the veterinary world so that it doesn’t cross over or continue to cross over into the human world.

Herz: And I guess if they could have some success, that would be good news for egg lovers as well.

Goldstein: That’s true.

Herz: And there’s some exciting news for WIC participants in Massachusetts, right?

Goldstein: Yeah, so WIC, our women, infant, and children program that supplies nutrition to over 125,000 individuals every month here in Massachusetts, is having really a banner year. So first, it’s the 50th anniversary of WIC. It’s really remarkable. But we are innovating. We’re not just sticking with what we’ve done for the past 50 years. And last month, we rolled out online ordering for WIC participants. So in a sort of first in the nation opportunity, we paired with Washington State. To allow WIC participants to go online to Walmart, order groceries, have them deliver directly to their door or be available for pickup at a local store. I said this earlier, but this is equity in action. This is making sure that resources, nutrition, healthy food is available to everyone, no matter where you live or what your transportation situation may be. We’ve already had in just a couple of weeks, thousands of orders placed through the online portal and we’re trying to expand it as much as we can.

Herz: Commissioner of the Department of Public Health, Robbie Goldstein, thanks as always.

Goldstein: Thanks for having me.

As measles cases continue to rise across the United States, public health officials are expressing alarm at anti-vaccine comments made by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Kennedy, who has long been a vaccine skeptic, this week met with families of two Texas girls who died from measles. He reportedly told one grieving father : “You don’t know what’s in the vaccine anymore.”

Dr. Robbie Goldstein, the commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Public Health, told GBH News that Kennedy’s comments were not what the country needs right now.

“It undermines decades of science. It undermined the entire infrastructure of public health,” said Goldstein. “We need to be resolute. Vaccines are safe, vaccines are effective, vaccines are the best way for parents to protect their children from measles.”

Vaccine skepticism and federal funding cuts have prompted the state’s Department of Public Health to invest in additional vaccine infrastructure and ease access.

“We have universal vaccine access for kids here in Massachusetts,” he said. “Any kid can get a vaccine ... and we can monitor it through our vaccine system at the state. We’re trying to do the same for adults.”

In addition to his controversial comments on vaccines, Kennedy has said he plans to tell the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to stop recommending water fluoridation to communities nationwide, a move that would upend decades of federal health policy. Kennedy claims that “new scientific information” points to a public health risk.

Goldstein said fluoride has demonstrated itself as a positive public health measure that lowers the percentage of people with dental problems.

“The reports that Secretary Kennedy is leaning on focus on artificially high levels of fluoride — levels that we don’t see in our water, levels that CDC doesn’t currently recommend, and levels that the Massachusetts Department of Public Health doesn’t recommend,” Goldstein said. “What we recommend are low levels of fluoride in the water, that we know have the effect that we’re hoping them to have.”